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	<title>Comments on: Choice or Immutable Force?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://secondhandkarl.com/2008/12/choice-or-immutable-force/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://secondhandkarl.com/2008/12/choice-or-immutable-force/</link>
	<description>A Legend In His Own Mind</description>
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		<title>By: Secondhand Karl</title>
		<link>http://secondhandkarl.com/2008/12/choice-or-immutable-force/comment-page-1/#comment-17901</link>
		<dc:creator>Secondhand Karl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 04:13:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondhandkarl.com/?p=1758#comment-17901</guid>
		<description>@Ms Batman - well said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Ms Batman &#8211; well said.</p>
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		<title>By: Ms Batman</title>
		<link>http://secondhandkarl.com/2008/12/choice-or-immutable-force/comment-page-1/#comment-17895</link>
		<dc:creator>Ms Batman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 00:50:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondhandkarl.com/?p=1758#comment-17895</guid>
		<description>I believe that love is a choice, one we make every day.  I also believe that DNA does not make us family, it makes us related, but not family.  Family transcends DNA.  I believe that just because we share similar DNA does not guarantee I will love you or you will love me.  I am not sure I believe in unconditional love, unless it&#039;s for your children. Everyone has a line drawn in the sand and if someone they loved crossed that line, they would find they choose not to love that person.  I think that some people like to use the term unconditional love but it&#039;s much closer to a commitment.  A commitment to stick it out through thick and thin.
Like Clint Black once sang, Love is not some place that we fall, it&#039;s something that we do</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe that love is a choice, one we make every day.  I also believe that DNA does not make us family, it makes us related, but not family.  Family transcends DNA.  I believe that just because we share similar DNA does not guarantee I will love you or you will love me.  I am not sure I believe in unconditional love, unless it&#8217;s for your children. Everyone has a line drawn in the sand and if someone they loved crossed that line, they would find they choose not to love that person.  I think that some people like to use the term unconditional love but it&#8217;s much closer to a commitment.  A commitment to stick it out through thick and thin.<br />
Like Clint Black once sang, Love is not some place that we fall, it&#8217;s something that we do</p>
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		<title>By: Secondhand Karl</title>
		<link>http://secondhandkarl.com/2008/12/choice-or-immutable-force/comment-page-1/#comment-17787</link>
		<dc:creator>Secondhand Karl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 05:51:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondhandkarl.com/?p=1758#comment-17787</guid>
		<description>@Anissa - Thanks! And sorry for the thinking.

@Stacey - Yeah, I used to buy into the soulmates thing, too, but moved away from that idea using the same logic you did. How is it that so many so-called soulmates happen to be in near proximity to their &quot;other halves?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Anissa &#8211; Thanks! And sorry for the thinking.</p>
<p>@Stacey &#8211; Yeah, I used to buy into the soulmates thing, too, but moved away from that idea using the same logic you did. How is it that so many so-called soulmates happen to be in near proximity to their &#8220;other halves?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Stacey</title>
		<link>http://secondhandkarl.com/2008/12/choice-or-immutable-force/comment-page-1/#comment-17783</link>
		<dc:creator>Stacey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Dec 2008 20:47:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondhandkarl.com/?p=1758#comment-17783</guid>
		<description>My feelings on love have changed over the years. When I was much younger I was completely sold on the soulmates concept. Then one day I thought about who most people spend their lives with and decided that either Fate is awfully nice to (more often than not) drop your destined life partner within 50 miles of you or the idea of soulmates is bullshit.

I don&#039;t know whether I&#039;d consider love a feeling or a choice. I know that I can experience chemistry (non-physical) with a man whether I want to or not. Whether I actually pursue a relationship with him is my choice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My feelings on love have changed over the years. When I was much younger I was completely sold on the soulmates concept. Then one day I thought about who most people spend their lives with and decided that either Fate is awfully nice to (more often than not) drop your destined life partner within 50 miles of you or the idea of soulmates is bullshit.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know whether I&#8217;d consider love a feeling or a choice. I know that I can experience chemistry (non-physical) with a man whether I want to or not. Whether I actually pursue a relationship with him is my choice.</p>
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		<title>By: Anissa@Hope4Peyton</title>
		<link>http://secondhandkarl.com/2008/12/choice-or-immutable-force/comment-page-1/#comment-17782</link>
		<dc:creator>Anissa@Hope4Peyton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Dec 2008 17:40:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondhandkarl.com/?p=1758#comment-17782</guid>
		<description>You know, I have to agree with what Jessica said about love vs commitment. 

Damn you, Karl, for making me think on the weekend. But THIS was an excellent post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, I have to agree with what Jessica said about love vs commitment. </p>
<p>Damn you, Karl, for making me think on the weekend. But THIS was an excellent post.</p>
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		<title>By: Secondhand Karl</title>
		<link>http://secondhandkarl.com/2008/12/choice-or-immutable-force/comment-page-1/#comment-17769</link>
		<dc:creator>Secondhand Karl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 05:26:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondhandkarl.com/?p=1758#comment-17769</guid>
		<description>@Sarcastica Well said. I think we all WANT to believe in that powerful force of love. Indeed, it can be a powerful force, but it&#039;s not some magical hurricane.

@Tracy Right. We&#039;ve all experienced those moments where we feel &quot;lightning&quot; upon seeing someone for the first time. Chemistry is very real. Attraction is amazing. Crushes are fun, too, and all of that can develop into love.

@Justin That&#039;s cool. We definitely disagree. I think we can totally control who we fall in love with.

@LeSombre I&#039;d argue that that wasn&#039;t love at first sight. It was more holy-shit-she&#039;s-amazing at first sight. I&#039;ve had that, too.

@DutchBitch Prexactly.

@Hilly I&#039;m a feeler, too. But I&#039;m also a thinker. I don&#039;t think they&#039;re mutually exclusive. I&#039;m saying that it&#039;s our actions, our choices, what we DO with our feelings that make love. Just saying you love somebody in and of itself doesn&#039;t mean shit. How do you SHOW it?

@Enrico Agreed. It takes a long, long time for anything to actually HAPPEN in &quot;Twilight.&quot; The more I think about it, the more I think the series is much ado about nothing. Yet I&#039;m in the middle of the final book. I guess I kept hoping for better.

@Poppy There are plenty of people I don&#039;t like...some I even despise. Again, I&#039;m not saying that love/hate is some magical switch we can flip on and off at will. I wish that were the case.

@NYC Watchdog I think I love you. And that&#039;s my choice.

@Jessica Very well put. I guess I should say that I know it&#039;s possible to FEEL love. It&#039;s more about the choices we make that, well, makes love LOVE.

@Robin I think your mom is a very wise woman. I do think it&#039;s a copout to say we have no control over who we love. I&#039;ve made a ton of bad choices in the relationship department, falling for people entirely wrong for me. But I learned something from all those unhealthy relationships. I can do better. I can take responsibility for choosing who I allow to be close to me emotionally, be accountable to myself.

@Patrick D. - thanks. I knew it would spark some debate after my short Twittering experience on the subject.

@Nat Yeah, all relationships evolve. Those that stagnate are really doomed to fail.

@Princess of the Universe - Of course you can&#039;t just manipulate your emotions. But as you said, you do choose what you DO about those emotions. 

@Ginger - I love hard, too. But I also think logically about who I place my heart with. Sure, there are parts that aren&#039;t logical. Feelings are never logical. But in the end, it&#039;s my choice to be with someone, and it&#039;s my choice to love them.

@Izzy - Yeah, that makes sense.

@Kailyn - Perhaps it is a mixture. I may be oversimplifying things. I&#039;m not saying it&#039;s a black/white thing, but I maintain that it&#039;s our ACTIONS that prove love, not a mental or emotional state.

@Avitable - I don&#039;t think I&#039;m off the mark at all. I&#039;ve certainly experienced love at first sight, but I was young and immature and ignorant. The only REAL love at first sight I believe in now is when you see your newborn baby for the first time. As for the unconditional love, again, I think that&#039;s limited to your children. There are always conditions. Perhaps some of them are far-fetched, but to say that you&#039;ll love someone no matter what is, to me, fooling yourself. If someone takes me for granted, steps on me, cheats on me, hurts me again and again, I&#039;m walking away. I may still love them, but I won&#039;t choose to be with them any more. And eventually that love will fade.

@Hello - So if some guy walked up to you and said &quot;I love you&quot; out of the blue, you&#039;d think that was valid? Insane. I know we all SAY we&#039;ve experienced love at first sight, but I think we&#039;ve all been mistaken. Sure, I&#039;ve felt instant attraction for someone. But LOVE? No way.

@Miss Britt - I&#039;m not saying that attraction is a choice. That&#039;s mental, emotional, and physiological. But attraction isn&#039;t love.

@Poppy - I&#039;m with you. Hate and love are both very intense for me. It takes a lot for me to love someone, and it takes a lot for me to hate them.

@SJ - I can see what you&#039;re saying. Makes sense. I suppose my point, when I say love is a choice, is that we have more control over our lives than what we think. To allow your life to be completely ruled by your emotions is crazy. And that&#039;s what many books and movies would have us believe...that we have no choice when love &quot;hits&quot; us.

@Sheila I never said you can&#039;t know what love is at 18. I merely said that many of us THINK we know love at 18 but are in reality experiencing attraction and/or lust. My views on love are incredibly different now, at 42, than they were when I was 18.

@Kailyn - It&#039;s simple. Many people CHOOSE love over their families and cultures, etc. If I met someone and loved them, I&#039;d certainly forego a lot of things in order to keep the love. Love is powerful. It&#039;s worth sacrifice. Not ALL sacrifices, mind you, but yeah...I&#039;d do a lot for love.

@Jenn - Sure, there&#039;s chemistry involved. Hopefully. I sure wouldn&#039;t choose to love anyone I had zero chemistry with.

@Janelle - Precisely. It&#039;s that choice, it&#039;s that commitment, that is truly love.

@Sybil Law - Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

@Noraisins - I think we&#039;re more in sync than you think.

@Twinkie - Oh, there are many more problems with that movie than that! :)

@PocketCT - Thanks, I&#039;ll take a look!

@Nery - Thanks. Great to finally &quot;meet up&quot; again after all this time. I never visit Myspace any more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Sarcastica Well said. I think we all WANT to believe in that powerful force of love. Indeed, it can be a powerful force, but it&#8217;s not some magical hurricane.</p>
<p>@Tracy Right. We&#8217;ve all experienced those moments where we feel &#8220;lightning&#8221; upon seeing someone for the first time. Chemistry is very real. Attraction is amazing. Crushes are fun, too, and all of that can develop into love.</p>
<p>@Justin That&#8217;s cool. We definitely disagree. I think we can totally control who we fall in love with.</p>
<p>@LeSombre I&#8217;d argue that that wasn&#8217;t love at first sight. It was more holy-shit-she&#8217;s-amazing at first sight. I&#8217;ve had that, too.</p>
<p>@DutchBitch Prexactly.</p>
<p>@Hilly I&#8217;m a feeler, too. But I&#8217;m also a thinker. I don&#8217;t think they&#8217;re mutually exclusive. I&#8217;m saying that it&#8217;s our actions, our choices, what we DO with our feelings that make love. Just saying you love somebody in and of itself doesn&#8217;t mean shit. How do you SHOW it?</p>
<p>@Enrico Agreed. It takes a long, long time for anything to actually HAPPEN in &#8220;Twilight.&#8221; The more I think about it, the more I think the series is much ado about nothing. Yet I&#8217;m in the middle of the final book. I guess I kept hoping for better.</p>
<p>@Poppy There are plenty of people I don&#8217;t like&#8230;some I even despise. Again, I&#8217;m not saying that love/hate is some magical switch we can flip on and off at will. I wish that were the case.</p>
<p>@NYC Watchdog I think I love you. And that&#8217;s my choice.</p>
<p>@Jessica Very well put. I guess I should say that I know it&#8217;s possible to FEEL love. It&#8217;s more about the choices we make that, well, makes love LOVE.</p>
<p>@Robin I think your mom is a very wise woman. I do think it&#8217;s a copout to say we have no control over who we love. I&#8217;ve made a ton of bad choices in the relationship department, falling for people entirely wrong for me. But I learned something from all those unhealthy relationships. I can do better. I can take responsibility for choosing who I allow to be close to me emotionally, be accountable to myself.</p>
<p>@Patrick D. &#8211; thanks. I knew it would spark some debate after my short Twittering experience on the subject.</p>
<p>@Nat Yeah, all relationships evolve. Those that stagnate are really doomed to fail.</p>
<p>@Princess of the Universe &#8211; Of course you can&#8217;t just manipulate your emotions. But as you said, you do choose what you DO about those emotions. </p>
<p>@Ginger &#8211; I love hard, too. But I also think logically about who I place my heart with. Sure, there are parts that aren&#8217;t logical. Feelings are never logical. But in the end, it&#8217;s my choice to be with someone, and it&#8217;s my choice to love them.</p>
<p>@Izzy &#8211; Yeah, that makes sense.</p>
<p>@Kailyn &#8211; Perhaps it is a mixture. I may be oversimplifying things. I&#8217;m not saying it&#8217;s a black/white thing, but I maintain that it&#8217;s our ACTIONS that prove love, not a mental or emotional state.</p>
<p>@Avitable &#8211; I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;m off the mark at all. I&#8217;ve certainly experienced love at first sight, but I was young and immature and ignorant. The only REAL love at first sight I believe in now is when you see your newborn baby for the first time. As for the unconditional love, again, I think that&#8217;s limited to your children. There are always conditions. Perhaps some of them are far-fetched, but to say that you&#8217;ll love someone no matter what is, to me, fooling yourself. If someone takes me for granted, steps on me, cheats on me, hurts me again and again, I&#8217;m walking away. I may still love them, but I won&#8217;t choose to be with them any more. And eventually that love will fade.</p>
<p>@Hello &#8211; So if some guy walked up to you and said &#8220;I love you&#8221; out of the blue, you&#8217;d think that was valid? Insane. I know we all SAY we&#8217;ve experienced love at first sight, but I think we&#8217;ve all been mistaken. Sure, I&#8217;ve felt instant attraction for someone. But LOVE? No way.</p>
<p>@Miss Britt &#8211; I&#8217;m not saying that attraction is a choice. That&#8217;s mental, emotional, and physiological. But attraction isn&#8217;t love.</p>
<p>@Poppy &#8211; I&#8217;m with you. Hate and love are both very intense for me. It takes a lot for me to love someone, and it takes a lot for me to hate them.</p>
<p>@SJ &#8211; I can see what you&#8217;re saying. Makes sense. I suppose my point, when I say love is a choice, is that we have more control over our lives than what we think. To allow your life to be completely ruled by your emotions is crazy. And that&#8217;s what many books and movies would have us believe&#8230;that we have no choice when love &#8220;hits&#8221; us.</p>
<p>@Sheila I never said you can&#8217;t know what love is at 18. I merely said that many of us THINK we know love at 18 but are in reality experiencing attraction and/or lust. My views on love are incredibly different now, at 42, than they were when I was 18.</p>
<p>@Kailyn &#8211; It&#8217;s simple. Many people CHOOSE love over their families and cultures, etc. If I met someone and loved them, I&#8217;d certainly forego a lot of things in order to keep the love. Love is powerful. It&#8217;s worth sacrifice. Not ALL sacrifices, mind you, but yeah&#8230;I&#8217;d do a lot for love.</p>
<p>@Jenn &#8211; Sure, there&#8217;s chemistry involved. Hopefully. I sure wouldn&#8217;t choose to love anyone I had zero chemistry with.</p>
<p>@Janelle &#8211; Precisely. It&#8217;s that choice, it&#8217;s that commitment, that is truly love.</p>
<p>@Sybil Law &#8211; Yeah, that makes perfect sense.</p>
<p>@Noraisins &#8211; I think we&#8217;re more in sync than you think.</p>
<p>@Twinkie &#8211; Oh, there are many more problems with that movie than that! <img src='http://secondhandkarl.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>@PocketCT &#8211; Thanks, I&#8217;ll take a look!</p>
<p>@Nery &#8211; Thanks. Great to finally &#8220;meet up&#8221; again after all this time. I never visit Myspace any more.</p>
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		<title>By: Nery</title>
		<link>http://secondhandkarl.com/2008/12/choice-or-immutable-force/comment-page-1/#comment-17767</link>
		<dc:creator>Nery</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 03:17:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondhandkarl.com/?p=1758#comment-17767</guid>
		<description>Hey Karl, 
I totally agree with you on the idea of &quot;choice&quot; and I agree with it now more than ever as I&#039;m reaching the fabulous 30s and I&#039;m realizing how my &quot;choices&quot; have influenced my life. Now more than ever I am a believer that we do have a choice on how we live life, who and how we love, and how others treat us. Great post! I wish I knew this great idea when I was younger, I would&#039;ve saved a few under eye circle mornings lol</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Karl,<br />
I totally agree with you on the idea of &#8220;choice&#8221; and I agree with it now more than ever as I&#8217;m reaching the fabulous 30s and I&#8217;m realizing how my &#8220;choices&#8221; have influenced my life. Now more than ever I am a believer that we do have a choice on how we live life, who and how we love, and how others treat us. Great post! I wish I knew this great idea when I was younger, I would&#8217;ve saved a few under eye circle mornings lol</p>
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		<title>By: PocketCT</title>
		<link>http://secondhandkarl.com/2008/12/choice-or-immutable-force/comment-page-1/#comment-17753</link>
		<dc:creator>PocketCT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 12:22:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondhandkarl.com/?p=1758#comment-17753</guid>
		<description>This anthropologist is studying love and is fascinating.  So here I am plugging her TED &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-ewvCNguug&quot; video again.&lt;/a&gt;

You will enjoy it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This anthropologist is studying love and is fascinating.  So here I am plugging her TED &lt;a href=&#8221;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-ewvCNguug&#8221; video again.</p>
<p>You will enjoy it.</p>
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		<title>By: Twinkie</title>
		<link>http://secondhandkarl.com/2008/12/choice-or-immutable-force/comment-page-1/#comment-17752</link>
		<dc:creator>Twinkie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 21:37:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondhandkarl.com/?p=1758#comment-17752</guid>
		<description>the problem with Twilight is that it&#039;s meant to be a TEEN movie. And teens are driven by lust and passion not love and commitment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the problem with Twilight is that it&#8217;s meant to be a TEEN movie. And teens are driven by lust and passion not love and commitment.</p>
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		<title>By: noraisins</title>
		<link>http://secondhandkarl.com/2008/12/choice-or-immutable-force/comment-page-1/#comment-17751</link>
		<dc:creator>noraisins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 19:14:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secondhandkarl.com/?p=1758#comment-17751</guid>
		<description>While I started off agreeing with you completely, the more I thought about it the more I started to change my mind just a bit – but not completely.

I guess at the heart of this debate would be whether or not you think all of the decisions we make are done consciously.  I absolutely feel that we can be affected by our unconscious in ways that affect our judgment and actions.   I think the same goes for hate.  We may not completely understand why we hate someone.   It may have something to do with a previous experience that our mind is linking the current one to.

I do agree that the initial decision to begin loving someone is a conscious one though.  We decide to let ourselves begin that journey.  After that we can let it get out of our control.

I think those feelings of love at first sight, butterflies, and magic are all feelings that some might associate with love, but only because they experience them in the same context with the decision to begin a relationship.  I would not define love using any of those feelings.  The more these feelings become associated with love, the more people think they are part of the definition.  I can absolutely say that I have thought I found “the one” based on such feelings and later found out that I was wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I started off agreeing with you completely, the more I thought about it the more I started to change my mind just a bit – but not completely.</p>
<p>I guess at the heart of this debate would be whether or not you think all of the decisions we make are done consciously.  I absolutely feel that we can be affected by our unconscious in ways that affect our judgment and actions.   I think the same goes for hate.  We may not completely understand why we hate someone.   It may have something to do with a previous experience that our mind is linking the current one to.</p>
<p>I do agree that the initial decision to begin loving someone is a conscious one though.  We decide to let ourselves begin that journey.  After that we can let it get out of our control.</p>
<p>I think those feelings of love at first sight, butterflies, and magic are all feelings that some might associate with love, but only because they experience them in the same context with the decision to begin a relationship.  I would not define love using any of those feelings.  The more these feelings become associated with love, the more people think they are part of the definition.  I can absolutely say that I have thought I found “the one” based on such feelings and later found out that I was wrong.</p>
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