I don’t know if I should be insulted or complimented by some of the comments I’ve received over yesterday’s post. I got a few “you’re a smart guy, but…” statements. Funny when I think about it, most of the highly intelligent friends I have are liberals. At least most of my online friends. Most of my offline friends are conservatives. Keep in mind I’m Catholic, a Catholic who was confirmed as a grown-up, by the way.
I’ve gone over some of the very interesting things that Miss Britt told me on the radio show Sunday. I asked her if there were any defining moments that made her a Democrat and she gladly shared her story. I don’t know that I can do the same thing, frankly. I’d seriously have to think about it.
I grew up fairly well off until after my parents got divorced when I was 8 or 9. Then it was the flip side of the coin – not because of the divorce, mind you, but because of circumstances. I lived with my dad and stepmother, sister and stepbrother. We had it hard for a long time…at time on welfare, using foodstamps, living in small trailers. I’m not bitching, I’m just stating the facts.
When I got married and joined the Air Force at 20 years old, we were really poor for a long time. Military pay isn’t very good. Sure, we had free medical and housing allowance, but you try living on $700 a month with infant twins. It’s sad that we qualified for WIC (Women, Infants, and Children) on Air Force salary, but I know I wasn’t the only one.
On the flip side again, after I got out of the Air Force and moved to Dallas, I was making pretty good money. After a while. I stepping-stoned my way from job to job and when I had my major breakdown in 1998 I was easily pulling in more money a year than all of my parents (and stepparents) put together. Then, within six months, I was looking for handouts from the local food banks. Yeah, I blew most of my money on…stuff. Stupid.
So I’ve seen the ups and downs. I’ve probably changed on the political spectrum, as well. I’m more “liberal” than I’ve ever been, I think. But I still call myself conservative. I took another politcal quiz tonight and it marked me as a Centrist. Makes sense to me.
Who’s the Centrist candidate?
Oh, right, there isn’t one.
OK, I HAVE to say this:
It always surprises me when people have HAD to make use of government assistance to survive and still vote Republican.
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I know you liked my comment because it involved getting you laid.
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Miss Britt – I know.
Mr. Fab – ha, I’m all for getting laid.
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I agree with Miss Britt. It surprises me always how people vote. Like they don’t always vote in their best interest or that they pick one issue that honestly matters very little in their day to day life and focus on that to make broad political decisions. I would like it if everyone would think about what is the purpose of government and vote for which one serves that purpose better. It would be a saner landscape.
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I think the welfare/Republican thing is sorta like me being a Democrat and anti-amnesty for illegal aliens. Of course, I have a perfectly logical reason for being against it. I live in CA.
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I would say it surprises me (like it did Britt and Pocket CT), but given your stance on abortion it makes sense.
I won’t debate that issue with you — your choice to be Catholic as an adult tells me that I probably won’t be able to sway your stance on the legal issue (I wouldn’t attempt to change the moral one), but how do you feel about contraception?
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We can’t win. It’s very unfashionable (and downright socially unacceptable) to be a Republican.
I’m Catholic too, so I feel I have another mark against me
Even though there are more Catholics on this planet than any other Christian religion…
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There are no centrist candidates, as far as I am concerned. One of the candidates tries to lean centrist, but that just happens when the chips are down.
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I know what you mean. I wish we could have more than just 2 candidates to choose from. Your post yesterday got me thinking, and of course not all my views came out (as they shouldn’t, here, on your blog)… All you got were some snippets here and there. Regardless, you are smart, and I won’t end it with a “but”.
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I’m not a liberal.
I’m also not necessarily a conservative, though I always identified as one until about the past 18 months.
I guess technically I’m a libertarian, but really, I just have no idea.
But I know I’m not a liberal.
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PocketCT – I hear ya.
Winter – heh.
Finn – I’m actually for contraception. It’s once a child is conceived that I have issues.
LVGurl – There aren’t any marks against you for that. I still tend to fall on the liberal side of Catholicism. Went to a Jesuit parish in Dallas. They rock.
Martymankins – Yeah, seems like there’s no middle ground in America.
Sybil Law – aw, thanks.
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Jessica – OK, I get it, you’re a liberal.
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There is an interesting radio program about leadership and emergence theory on WNYC’s Radio Lab program (season 1 archives) One of the stories gives interesting reasoning about how we actually need the fringe and freaky ideals for us as a community to end up somewhere near the center.
I try to remember this when I too, question how folks who have needed the assistance of our welfare programs can say others are not deserving of the same. We all need help from time to time. We all need to help on occasion. Government welfare programs paid for by our tax dollars help you to fulfill your Christian obligation to care for your neighbor as you would yourself without you even having to get your hands dirty.
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Regarding what Miss Britt and Pocket CT said, there was just something in the news (did I hear about it on Wait Wait Don’t Tell Me?) about how one of the states historically votes in a way that screws itself. Not long ago they’d suffered some sort of catastrophe (let’s say Kansas was the state and a tornado was the catastrophe) but all of their National Guard was deployed in Iraq — and they’d voted red.
I could be wrong on the details (the comments I leave are no better researched than my blog) but the gist is dead on.
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Caron – I think the taxes are high enough already. It’s how we (and by we, I mean the government, because I can assure you they haven’t asked ME how we should spend it) decide to spend that money. I’m all for the government helping out the people. I just wish we weren’t spending $10 billion a month in Iraq right now.
Delmer – Yeah, it’s weird how states as a whole seem to vote. Most military families vote Republican because the conservatives are the ones who feel we need a stronger military presence.
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Wait, here’s my question in all of this…why is anyone giving you a hard time for what you believe in anyway? I won’t get riled up over it in case it wasn’t that big of a deal but dude…believe in what you believe in and seek knowledge. But don’t let people sway you to the other side.
The correct side.
The liberal side.
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Karl the projection (conservatively) in Iraq is to spend three trillion dollars. Go here and see what else you may be able to do instead. I would love to see your shopping cart. I bet it will give a better measure of you than that compass and will say Karl is a smart guy, no ifs ands or buts.
I’m not certain that military families thing is right for the country, might be in Florida but I think I read that the military is fairly solidly democrat. (I have a decent memory but I am as reference savvy as Delmer) Most people who join the military do it because their economic options there are better than in the non military world, not because they necessarily want to contribute to a strong military presence. Look at where the recruiters target and you will see they don’t care about party lines, just poverty lines.
It is also very odd to me that the states that classically vote red are the states that have the lowest contribution to the economy to federal services ratio. They also have the highest divorce rates, larger obesity rates and larger per capita consumption of porn. I would love it if someone could explain to me why that all is.
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I’ve always characterized myself as a liberaltarian… sort of like jekyll and hyde.
As for centrist candidates… really, what the hell is a “centrist” anyway? Some of these labels just kill me. Would a Democrat who is anti abortion be ‘centrist’ because they have a conservative stance on a social issue? Does 5 conservative leaning opinions balance out 5 liberal opinions? Or is a centrist really just a pussy who doesn’t have any strong feelings either way (Joe Lieberman)?
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I think I see the problem here: it’s the two party system. I think this nation is complex enough to support a parlimentary system – where lots of small parties have to build coalitions with each other, explicitally trading political horses till there’s enough of them to make a difference. And if a member of your coalition is disrespected it’ll leave and the remaining members won’t be able to pass legislation. It doesn’t make sense to me that all the different kinds of conservatives have to sleep together – social c’tives, fiscal c’tives, neocons, theocons… and the demo party is an even bigger mess. Are americans ready for a multiparty system? Sure – if you’re talking about getting hammered on a saturday night. Otherwise, I think we’re losing ground, democracy-wise…
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Many elected officials now have some sort of e-newsletter where you can keep an eye on how they vote, and contact them with your concerns.
They (the government) ask you how to spend the tax money every time an election is held. You WILL continue funding the war by voting Republican. If your main criteria for voting Republican is the abortion issue, here’s something to think about. Abortion will continue to happen. Whether it is safe and legal, or underground, women will always control their own destinies. Should we really be sending our soldiers off to war, fighting for freedom and civil liberties, while simultaneously trying to deny those very rights to half the population?
Apparently that third cup of coffee has me feeling feisty.
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Hilly – ha, the “correct” side.
PocketCT – the military has traditionally been mostly conservative in their voting patterns. I say “mostly” because, sure, there are those that vote Democrat and those that vote Libertarian. Oddly enough, after spending half an hour looking through Google and Ask.com I can’t find any demographics. It’s not just a Florida thing, though. I agree that many people join the military out of financial need, or to go to college, etc. I was one of those people.
If anyone can point me to some military voting demographics, I’d love to see them.
Steve – ha. I don’t think centrists (whatever the fuck they are) are necessarily pussies. I feel very strongly about certain issues and if I were voting on any one issue I could be on either side of the fence. Put ‘em all together, though, and I suppose I’m one of those people that the candidates hate: hard to categorize.
Dan – Perhaps I should move to Canada. Better health care and more than two parties.
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Caron – I don’t mind feisty.
I understand your point of view. I used to share it. But I’m definitely not getting into the abortion debate here. Too heavy and way too divisive. Suffice it to say that I respectfully disagree that abortions are tied to liberty.
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I guess I meant to be more clear that both the funding of the war and abortion are inextricably tied to the Republican party. A vote for one issue, ends up being a vote for the other by default.
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Caron – well, that’s probably true. But you could say much the same thing about voting Democrat on certain issues. Voting for nationalized health care ends up being a vote for pro-choice. Or whatever the issues may be. In the end, we all have to weigh the pros and cons and make a decision. That’s what voting is.
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I read through some of your comments and I should really refrain. . .
This whole nationalized health care thing just kills me. If we had national health care, I’d probably still be waiting for my acl surgery and unable to walk. I know several who live in other countries who have national health care who go to other countries so as not to have to wait five years for heart surgery, etc.
I’m firmly in the camp that people should keep more of their own money and therefore would be able to find affordable health care. And don’t tell me it’s not available because it is. We purchased our own for a while.
Sorry, I think I just had an argument with myself in your comments but I just wanted you to know that I’ve got your conservative “back.”
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BBM – thanks, but you know you’re always welcome to speak freely here, as is everyone. National health care *sounds* appealing at first, especially when there are so many uninsured people out there. But I think you’re right. I know people in Canada and England that waited years for treatment. I can’t imagine we’d be any more efficient.
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Just wait until I announce the Iron Fist candidacy. I’m even starting my own political party. I’m going to be completely orthogonal to the regular political spectrum.
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Iron Fist – I’ll back you all the way, dude.
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I don’t vote for any specific party, I vote for the person I think will do the best job…. Or lately the one that will cause the least damage. The abortion issue is has never influenced my vote. I consider myself pro-choice, because my feeling on the matter are…… if a women is willing to kill their own offspring before it’s even born, then she isn’t likely to make a good mother and the baby and the rest of the world is probably better off. Kind of a cold hearted view, I guess. But children can’t be forced on someone. They take to much care to turn out right. That being said I totally lose respect for anyone that has an abortion for anything less then a life threatening reason. Also this being America and all…. everyone has a right to their own views and shouldn’t be attacked for them just because they differ from your own or the mainstream.
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Michelle – you are a wise woman, indeed. There’s nothing like an election year (or in this case, an election fucking DECADE) to get people’s hackles up.
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